Watershed - What are the main characteristics that define the cinemas of continental China, of Taiwan and of Hong Kong?

Luiz Carlos Merten - The Hong Kong cinema depicted itself in a determined moment by being, fundamentally an action cinema which exported martial arts adventures. There was even the Shaw Brothers studio which produced all the fancy dress of the type. Indeed, here in Brazil, my first contact with the Chinese cinema was through Hong Kong. In the mid 80`s that eruption in China called the Fifth Generation, which brought producers like Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige, who began to bring success in international festivals. Of course, the most illustrious of them was Zhang Yimou, who won prizes in Berlin, Venice, and Cannes. It was a cinema, which tried to reflect on Chinese society, but not yet approaching contemporaneous subjects. Most of these films were from the past, discussed traditional society, naturally seeking a link with the present. They were art films, in the refinement sense, of plastic beauty. With time, these directors had problems with censorship and these problems persist until today. On interviewing Jia Zhang-Ke, who came to Brazil as a special guest of Mostra International de Cinema, in São Paulo, he said that none of his films had premiered in China because of censorship. He was an internationally prized director but unedited in his country. And the history of the cinema of Taiwan starts for us through Mostra, with Tsai Ming-Liang, who, let us say is the first director who broke through with a more daring proposition. He makes a thematic cinema and audacious language, reflecting on the gay culture in the country. I have the impression that the identity of the Taiwan cinema is basically that. It is profoundly contemporaneous, does not have films from the past - if it has we do not see it. It is a cinema of existential questioning. Urban, modern, radical.

WS - is it possible to do a chronology of the Chinese cinema as from Cosmopolitan Shanghai in the 20`s up to now, the 21st century?

LCM - Even in cinematic programs in Brazil, we know very little about pre-fifth generation Chinese cinema. Logically, if it already is the fifth generation, there were at least four previous generations, but they are not of our knowledge around here. The Chinese films were extremely rare on the screens in the 60`s, which were marked by the Cultural Revolution in China, productions were submitted to a much more rigid censorship. They had a didactic, militant characteristic. On a certain time, I was in Paris, after the Cannes festival, and there a program exactly on the cinema of the Cultural Revolution was being shown. I went to see some things. The format was trash, carnaval-like. It was a cinema of propaganda, not of esthetic, intellectual permanence.

WS - Can the economic projection of China take the cinema of the country to a more commercial moment, more directed to export films for the West?

LCM - Last year, speaking to Zhang-Ke, I asked him exactly that. Because China is very large, it is a fantastic market. The problem is that the cinema that interests us, critical and artistic, that goes to the big festivals, is not what the Chinese end up seeing, since they are films which in the majority of cases, continue to be censored. Suddenly, the Chinese will be seeing Brazilian soaps.

WS - But films like Red Lanterns had no political censorship?

LCM - They did too. Do not think that just because Zhang Yimou talks of the past, of Communist pre-revolution, of traditional society, that he did not have problems with Red Lanterns. Chinese society is very patriarchal, whatever the regime. It is based upon codes of authority.

WS - Has there ever been any type of retaliation by festivals, like that of Cannes, against the government of China, prohibiting the exhibition of  film of the country?

LCM - No. In various moments, the Festival of Cannes supported the international recognition of the Chinese cinema, selecting, for example, the films of Zhang Yimou. At times, they were sort of smuggled out of his country so they could arrive in Cannes. What there was not was reciprocity when the film returned to China. However, on the other hand, there was what seems to be a tacit agreement. Because, for example, if it were in the times of Stalin in the Soviet Union, they would have disappeared with the director. If it is uncomfortable, eliminate. But that never happened. Chinese directors had this problem with censorship, but, in the following festival, they had a new film. It is something sort of irrational for us. As the system of production depends on public investment, the solution would be to simply cut off the possibility of filming.

WS - The chinese cinema is in the sixth generation, which is urban, modern. Are the thematics themselves already leading to a more globalized cinema?

LCM - Jia Zhang-Ke is a director of the sixth generation and made a film called The World, about a theme park, which absorbs all the cultures of the world. In it, at the same time as people are living the fantasy of being inserted in this global world, each one of the characters has health, lodging and existential problems. This shows that China is entering this global world without having resolved its structural problems. It is too gigantic a step, which is the theme of another film of the director, Still Life, about the Three Throats Dam.

WS - Was launching the Tiger and the Dragon in Mandarin in the American market too daring?

LCM – Was it really? Tiger and the Dragon arose at a moment when there was a very great curiosity for this culture of Asian struggles, Quentin Tarantino, all this thing. It was already a more sophisticated and segmented market. I have the impression that the mass culture underwent a transformation in the last 40 years. Nowadays, if you think of cinema, it is very self-referential; it demands a type of knowledge. Even when you go to an action film, you already see a quantity of information, which allows you to assimilate stories more quickly and identify the cuts the directors are using, who they are elevating. Today, mass culture tries to take more and more people to consume, but is active in niches, tries to satisfy group needs. Since a segment, which enjoys this type of action, exists, you count on it. For this public launching a film with sub-titles is not going to drive it away. On the contrary, it makes it more attractive, because it validates the original product. So much so, that these films were good for the American cinema. 

WS - Is putting Chinese stars in their  productions sufficient for Hollywood to conquer the Asian market?

LCM - Hollywood brought Gong Li and others but none of them became stars of the American cinema. I have the impression that, in most cases, the American cinema cares about these actors but more to paralyze them in their origin than to give them recognition. Because the stars of the Americans continue to be Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt... The others are supporting roles.

WS - Chinese actresses, especially, have obtained great international projection. Talk a little about this generation of actresses. 

LCM - When Zhang Yimou started to have success in the west, he brought his star, Gong Li. All his first films like Red Lanterns and Shanghai Triad, had this actress. Gong Li became the star of festivals with him and afterwards, began to make films with other directors. She also became the L’Oréal girl, which is the brand which  finances the Festival of Cannes. L’Oréal girls are actresses of authorial films, of success. Gong Li earned this star status after Cannes, after being this brands girl. Apart from being very talented and winning interpretation prizes in festivals, she is of breath-catching beauty.

WS - Tell us of some experience on interviewing some director, actor or actress from the Chinese cinema. 

LCM - I interviewed Gong Li, Zhang Yimou and others more than once, but it was never an easy dialogue. Gong Li already did films in English but does not give interviews in English. They speak in Mandarin and are translated. Interviews of this type never flow: when they come under the translators sieve, they are always truncated. Once when I interviewed Gong Li, I had the impression that she was understanding all the questions, she was having fun, she seemed to know perfectly what I was saying.

WS - Favourite Director and film?

LCM - Director Zhang Yimou, action director John Woo and, film, Heroe.


Interview by Adriana Del Ré